Peace upon you all,
All what I am trying to say is yes truth can be known by the Quran,
I know you're confused that you said the Quran tells that you must have followed Jesus (AS) but tells you to follow Islam and if you didn't you will be punish. Well let me explain this for you.
Jesus is a prophet Allah had sent him to you to teach you and you must follow him. Your book is the bible, but after Allah had raised Jesus people didn't do right as he taught them and they start to do what he had forbid them and misunderstand, changed the bible words that's why Prophet Mohammed (SAW) came and taught us Islam. Have you forgotten when Jesus said that after him will come a prophet named Ahmed which is Mohammed (SAW). Ahmed and Mohammed all mean the same thing; the praise one and Prophet Mohammed (SAW) is Ahmed because people call Ahmed (SAW) or Mohammed (SAW). If you're following Jesus (AS) the right way and you follow Islam Allah will reward you two times for following Jesus (AS) and for following Mohammed (SAW) because they are all brothers and they are all prophets. You will still be defending Jesus (AS) because we defend him and the other prophets too, for we know they are all right about what they claim. Therefore we will be on their side telling the truth and defending them. Islam is the last religion and please don't take a bad point of view of it. It's a peaceful religion and every one must follow it the way how Quran says so.
I don't mean any offence; I am only answering your question.
If you want anything you are welcome to answer me,
We are all brothers and sisters.
Peace upon you all.

Ghadah,

Thanks for your comments. Do you have some evidence for Biblical corruption and for the Jesus/Ahmed connection?

In addition, Jesus taught that we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. Jesus taught that He is the Son of God, both divine and human. The Koran claims that Jesus is not divine, and that Jesus did not die for our sins. Therefore, both cannot be true and cannot be reconciled. How do you reconcile the conflicting texts?

In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful Dan, Jesus and Muhammed peace be upon them are human being like us except that they were prophets been sent by Allah. Many miracles were performed by the prophets by Allah's permission so that people would believe that they are prophets. Allah tells us that Jesus said: "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God's permission. And I tell you eat and what you store in your houses…." (Quran, 3:49) See this is a miracle from Allah so you would believe Jesus is the prophet. Also Jesus peace be upon him never mention that he is the son of God nor he said he is one but said he came with a sign "…from your Lord…" and every thing he did was by "…God's permission…" . If you have read the Quran then you would have read these verses "Say Allah is one, He is the one who only grant your wishes and what ever you need, He didn't give birth nor was He born, and there was no one whom likes him" Dan, these verses are true because they are Allah's words, the Quran hasn't been changed nor even one signal since the day of the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him. Now let us go to the Biblical corruption, the problem you got to understand is that the Bible kept changing every time. Honestly if you got the Bible but then you Get the old one and the one before and so on, which one would you believe in? You know, have you ever considered why there are many religions in this world? I have no trouble with this question because I know the answer! You see Allah had sent many prophets and they're all connected together through their great grand parents and Muhammed (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh) are connected in this way but Allah sent every one of these prophets to different nation but people now start to enjoy this life and grew impatient waiting for the Day Of Judgment and start to change what the prophet had teaches them. But if you look to our religion and your religion don't you see that the two prophets teach the same thing except for new things in Islam so peace and justice would grow between people. If the Bible hadn't been changed, and people followed it the way how Jesus (pbuh) teaches them you would have known the truth Dan, but because all of these changing in every religion Allah sent kept sending prophets to tell the people the truth for He's so mercy and wanted every one to enter paradise.if only Christian know the truth for they are well mannered people. That may reconcile the confusion, but if you're still confuse You're welcome to ask Peace be upon you all.

Ghadah, thanks for replying. I asked you three questions, and as far as I can tell you didn't come remotely near answering any of them. I'll hang in there in case you come up with something. Have a great day!

Hmmm, the first question you asked was if I have any corruption for the Biblical evidence about the connection of Jesus & Muhammed, the second if I have any settlment about the texts and may i know the third please?

Have a good day you too

1. Evidence for Biblical corruption
2. Evidence for Jesus/Ahmed connection
3. Reconciling conflicting texts.

The first question had two parts. Sorry for the confusion :)

I think I did Dan, I did answer them all but not in order and well, I had add some stuff but if you're confused I'll answer them now in an easier way: Evidence for Biblical corruption: Is that the Bible kept changing and which one would you believe in, the first real copy is which you would have to believe in. That's all what i know about the Bible. Evidence for Jesus/Ahmed (PBUTH) connection: well there's a family tree of Muhammed (pbuh) & Jesus (pbuh) but I don't know how to show you but if you have a way how, tell me please. The family tree also tells you how all the prophets are connected. Reconciling conflicting texts which is about Jesus that he's the son of God or no: "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God's permission. And I tell you eat and what you store in your houses…." (Quran, 3:49) Now look carefully at what he (Jesus) claimed, did he said 'I am the son of God' or any thing like that. he only said that all what he did was by God's permission. Second Jesus did not die it's only happened to be that the likeness of Jesus was put over another man and so Jesus's enemies took him and killed him thinking he's Jesus. We Muslims believe that Jesus would come back by Allah's permission, even some Jews knows that and they're waiting for him to kill him. Well because, in the beginning as we know that Musa (Moses)(PBUH) was Jews prophet I mean he was one of them but a prophet but after he died well Jesus (PBUH) came and continued the Torah which is what was Moses (PBUH) was teaching and then he taught the Injeel which is the Bible I think. That's as far as I know, and you'll see Jesus (PBUH) when he comes back, but probably along time until he comes. Who knows when! Third Jesus is a human being like us, he eats, he bleed, he sleep etc WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HE'S THE SON OF GOD?

1. You have presented zero evidence for Biblical corruption.

2. Ditto for the Jesus/Ahmed connection.

3. We'll focus on the third point: The following two links demonstrate the absurdity of saying Jesus was merely a human prophet. Since we have complete manuscripts of the Gospels that predate Muhammed and the Quran affirms the reliability of the Gospels, you, as a Quran-believing Muslim, know you can trust the Gospel accounts. The following links demonstrate conclusively that Jesus claimed to be God and that the authors of those Gospels recognized Jesus as God. You simply do not have the option of saying Jesus was a good guy but not God. Jesus was lying, insane, or is in fact God Himself.

http://answering-islam.org/Q-A-panel/nowhere.html

http://www.grmi.org/renewal/Richard_Riss/evidences/32claims.html

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:1-3, 14)

The Word became flesh. Are you limiting Allah by saying He cannot do what He wishes? Ghadah, if you say this is corrupted text, you are saying the same text the Quran affirms is corrupted.

http://answering-islam.org/Green/onbible.htm

The following from the baptism of Jesus:

And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17)

I wish you no harm Dan like how you wish us no harm too :) I am not limiting that Allah cannot do what he wishes. I believe He's the most Powerful. NOW ABOUT JESUS (PBUH): Read this text and tell me what you think? :) "Biblical Evidence of Jesus being a servant og God and having no share in Divinity: All praise to the One to Whom all Dignity, Honour and Glory are due; the unique with perfect attributes, Who begets not, nor is He begotten. JESUS AND THE DEVIL IN THE BIBLE: In the New Testament of the Bible,in the fourth chapter of the Gospel according to Matthew, the sixth and seventh verses clearly indicate that Jesus is an obedient mortal and God (Allah) is the Master and Lord according to his saying in the seventh verse: "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord, thy God." In this chapter we read that the Devil actually carried the Messiah, and took him from place to place. How can the Devil carry God? Glory be to Allah; He is above such blasphemy! Then the Devil orders him to prostrate before him and worship him, even tempting him with wordly possessions. How can the Devil even dare such an audacity with God? When the Devil wanted Jesus to comply with his orders, he (Jesus) replied by saying that it was written (in the previous Books): "Thou shalt worship the Lord, thy God; And Him only shalt thou serve" -Matthew 4:10. CHILDREN OF GOD: Jesus never called himself Son of God but he 'Son of Man'(Mark 2:10) although he heard himself being called by that name he did not object-as assumed in the Bible-and did not consider the title exclusively for him. According to the Biblical term in the Old and New Testaments, every God-fearing righteous person is called 'Son of God'. In Matthew 5:9 we read: "Blessed are the peace-makers, for they shall be called the children of God" In Matthew 5:45- "That ye may be children of your Father which is in Heaven..." GOD THE FATHER: In Matthew 5:48- "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." In Matthew 6:1- "...otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21- "Not everyone that sayeth unto me(Jesus), Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven." N.B. The world 'Lord' here was translated as Rabb in the Arabic version of the Bible so that people may be convinced that Jesus is God! But if one studies the rest of the verse, one will note that the verse bears testimony to the subservience (to God's Will) of the Messiah (Jesus). Therefore the correct translation should be: "Not every one that sayeth to me, O my Master, shall enter into kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." It is obvious from the above readings from the Bible that the term 'Father' is used for God in numerous places in the Bible. it is never used exusively for Jesus. Matthew 11:25- "At that time Jesus answered and said, 'I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and has revealed them unto babes'" JESUS THE WORSHIPPER: "And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray...." If Jesus is God or a part of God then why did he pray? In fact, prayer is always from submitting, needy and dependent one for the Mercy of Almighty Allah as mentioned in the Quran: {O mankind! It is you who stand in need of Allah but Allah is the Rich(Free of all wants and needs), the Worthy of all praise} (V.35:15). And in V.19:93 of the Quran: {There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes to the Most Gracious(Allah) as a slave.} JESUS AS A SERVANT OF ALLAH: Matthew 23:8- 'But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your master, even Jesus, and all ye are brethern." Here it is clearly proved that Jesus was servant of Allah, and that there is only One Master and He is Allah. In the Arabic version of the Bible this verse has been translated so that Jesus is meant to be the master whereas the English rending is nearer the original sense. Matthew 23:9- "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven." From this you will note that fatherhood and sonship is meant to be the relationship between the Lord and His servants: it is meant in a gerenal sense and not specifically for Jesus. Matthew 24:36- "But of that day and hour knoweth no man,no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.". This is a definite proof that the Final Hour is unknown to any but Allah, thus Jesus' knowledge is imperfect like all other men; Allah Alone is ALL-Knowing Omniscient. Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with aloud voice, saying,'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?(My God, My God, why hast Thou foresaken me?") This is according to thier (Christians') assumption that Jesus cried in a loud voice saying the above words while he was being crusified. This is a great insult as such words could only come from unbelivers in Allah. Further, it is incredible that such words should come out from a Prophet of Allah because Allah never breaks His promise and His Prophets never complained against His Promise." That would explain that Jesus(PBUH) was being raised and also that he is a Prophet.

Here's the thing: Christians believe Jesus was both God AND man, so any passages indicating the humanity of Jesus actually reinforce the Christian claim of Jesus being fully human and fully divine.

In addition, even if I accept the claim that Jesus did not say the magic words, "I am God", I can just as easily say that Jesus never claimed NOT to be God either. So, this point carries no weight.

"Son of Man" is a claim to divinity. It is an allusion to Daniel.

While Jesus walked the Earth, He was subservient to God the Father and had a personal relationship with Him, includin praying to Him. He voluntarily assumed this role. This is consistent with Christian theology.

Jesus cry on the cross was another allusion, this time to Psalm 22, which spells out in detail what was prophesied about the Messiah:

16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me.

18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.

These verses clearly indicate that Jesus knew he was fulfilling what David had written many years before.

Since words are equivocal, they take on the context of the passage. As I will demonstrate below, Jesus was in the unique position of the one and only Son of God.

Since you have quoted Matthew, I will point out here a few parts that point to Jesus's divinity.

Matthew 2: The Magi come to worship Him.

Matt 3: A voice from heaven calls Jesus his Son.

Matt 4: Jesus healed the sick and drove out demons.

Matt 8: More healing. Jesus clams the storm. Exorcisms.

9: Healing and resurrection.

10: Jesus gave authority to His disciples to drive out demons and heal. Notice that Jesus gave the authority, not God the Father. Jesus also tells his listeners to follow Him and lose their lives for Him.

11:27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."--here Jesus calls himself the "Son".

12: Jesus demonstrates authority over Sabbath laws.

13: Jesus explained the parable of the sower. This is what is happening to you right now as you read this. Will you allow birds, rocks, sun or thorns to kill the seed?

14: Miracles. Peter calls Jesus "Lord" and the "Son of God"

15:10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "--Jesus declared all foods clean, including pork.

16:16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[b] the Son of the living God." 17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

AND 21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Was Jesus a madman? He predicted his death and resurrection on the third day. If, as the Quran claims, Jesus wasn't resurrected, how can this be explained?

17: A voice from heaven again calls Jesus his Son.

AND 9As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."

20:17Now as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside and said to them, 18"We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"--This speaks for itself. The Quran claims these things never happened. If Jesus was wrong about His crucifixion and resurrection, He is a liar or a madman. There is no middle ground Ghadah.

22:41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42"What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?"
"The son of David," they replied.
43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
44" 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." ' 45If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?" 46No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.--Jesus is saying He is God!

26: Jesus again predicts His crucifixion and resurrection.

AND 62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 63But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."

64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?"
"He is worthy of death," they answered.--here Jesus claims again to be the Son of God, and his punishment is death.

27:50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"--The curtain tore, an earthquake hit, and people rose from their graves. Did this happen because an imposter was crucified in Jesus's place?

28:16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."--Jesus commands baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, indicating that He is in fact the Son of God.

Does the Bible say anything about Islam or the approaching of Islam?

If you thing Islam is untrue can you make a one like the Quran?

that's the end of my argument I will say no more no less
waslamu alaykum

I like following excerpt from dan :
"The Issues
As we live our Christian life, we will raise issues accordingly. Our goal is not to harass or insult anybody, but to raise objective intellectual issues. When quoting or referring to Islamic doctrine, we take care in researching the issue so that we do not misrepresent it. If you find us in error, we will appreciate documentation so that we may review and make corrections if appropriate.

We’re not here to please the world. We strive to be humble at heart, defend our faith objectively, seek the truth, and be one with God.

Pray for us as we pray for you."

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

FROM A MUSLIM

We Muslims got many books about Jesus and we agree that Jesus is a prophet from God(Allah) send to us. But try to see what happend with the bibel!!!!! There is people after Jesus dead riding things about him when they event now him, and our books about Jesus was reding from information from our Prophet and his familly. Anyway WHY DO YOU NOT TRY TO KNOW WHAT WE GOT ABOUT JESUS and even in our book the Holly QURAN, there is pages there tell us about how Jesus was born and wich mirakel god gaved to Jesus to let the Jewish people not to think Mairam(Jesus Mom) that she was a hoe cause she was´nt married with anybody when she gaved the birth to Jesus

Dan, You're saying that Jesus(pbuh) was a human as well as a God at the same time. The chapter of the Quran Al-Ahad or The Unity tells us some of the signs or in other words you can say that it is the definition of the God. According to that definition, it is not true that Jesus was a God. Another thing, You're asking Ghadah about the proof of corruption in your bible and if he can provide it to you. Well, It is known to everyone that Bible is not in its Original Shape. It has been corrupted. I'm not saying this, so many western christian historians and scholars agree on this point.

I've some confusion in my mind if you can please help me to solve it. I often think over this thing that If Jesus was a God, Why didnt he visit each and every part of the world? Why was he there with Jews? When did he announce the religion of christianity? When we read the history of the events from the day he was born (or when he came to the world in human form, according to your belief) and the day he died (we dont' believe that he died), we find not a single word spoken by Him claiming that he has brought a new religion i.e. christianity. Let's say he brought a new religion which was mandatory to follow by all human beings, then why do you have torah and psalsm included in bible which were actually the books for Jews? Why do you read them? Are you not half-jews???????? judo-christians?

Hi Adnan,

Do you believe everything western christian historians and scholars say?

Except for a few scholars, everybody agrees that Jesus died on the cross. The Q'ran says he didn't? Who's got the truth?

How many books have you read about Jesus?

Jesus' ministry was not to go around the world. He also didn't come to create "Christianity".

If you read the old testament, you see prophecies about the Messiah. This is what Jesus came to fulfill.

His followers were called "Christians" after the greek name for "messiah". They didn't call themselves Christians. It was outsiders who used the name...after many years/centuries - the name just stuck.

You could indeed say that "Christ Followers" are the true Israel. Not the Jews or Muslims. We are the true people of God.

I would seriously encourage to read more about Jesus. Not from Muslim or Online Sources. Go to the bookstore and read some history books. Start with the New Testament. Then Go and read the Old Testament.

Ask God to really help you. He said, you shall look for me with all your heart and mind and should and you shall find me.

Forget about what I say or a book says. If God is truly real, you shall know him.

I didn't realize this thread was active again!

Ghadah wrote:

Does the Bible say anything about Islam or the approaching of Islam?

If you thing Islam is untrue can you make a one like the Quran?

1. Not specifically, aside from mentioning that antichrists and false prophets will come into the world and attempt to lead us astray.

2. I don't see how the second question is relevant. I realize the Quran asks that very question, but how does uniqueness prove veracity?

Jurrl,

"There is people after Jesus dead riding things about him..."

So you admit Jesus died? How, where and when?

Adnan,

"Well, It is known to everyone that Bible is not in its Original Shape. It has been corrupted. I'm not saying this, so many western christian historians and scholars agree on this point."

This is most certainly not "known to everyone". Those same western christian scholars you quote (not that you actually provided any names) would also argue that the Quran is not the word of God. Are you willing to be consistent?

"and the day he died (we dont' believe that he died),"

You might want to get with your buddy Jurrl on that one.