I never really thought that was the case ... but you got me good:-)

I enjoy pointing out that verse in Leviticus. People are so quick to dis' Leviticus because it is challenging to read and seemingly outdated - and of course because of its political incorrectness.

Since ancient near east culture had an amzing oral tradition, I wonder how long the Rule was widely spoken before it was written down. Did you come across anything in your research?

Hi Dan,

Yeah, Hinduism has been practiced for a very long time and most of it was passed from oral traditions. The earliest written record of the vedas is from 500 B.C. but the religion itself may predate judaism and has definitely been around from 2000 BC or so... (source: probe.org)
http://www.probe.org/content/view/692/65/

It looks like the Golden Rule has been around for much longer than Leviticus. This can be seen by its presence in African and Native American cultures, and in ancient Egyptian writings dated some centuries before Levticius.

I thought this was pretty obvious, but I'll mention it anyway. Just because it wasn't written down until Leviticus, there is no reason God wouldn't have shared it much earlier.

"I thought this was pretty obvious, but I'll mention it anyway. Just because it wasn't written down until Leviticus, there is no reason God wouldn't have shared it much earlier."

Well, it is questionable that the first written record of the rule was Leviticus, but even if this were the case, you make a good point.

It looks like it was shared much, much earlier:

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/06/chimps-follow-t.html

"Chimps follow the Golden Rule"

There is enough evidence to show that Moses, the author of Leviticus did not follow the so called Golden Rule himself, as he drove out the Cannonites to establish Israel. Or we can go a step further and say that the God of Moses did not follow the Golden Rule on the night when he goe and kills the first born sons of Egyptians.

How can God be so vengefull? Is the 'Goled Rule" a mask to hide the heneous acts that one does. It appears so.

Moses, the author of Leviticus did not follow the so called Golden Rule himself, as he drove out the Cannonites to establish Israel

The "Neighbours", in question are other Jews in Leviticus, so he wasn't actually breaking the Golden Rule when he was Ethnically Cleansing his way across the desert to the promised land

And look at how many time the word Neighbour is in the commandments. Killing, stealing, bearing false witness, etc also only applies to other Jews.

Here's just one little quote from the web link above...

The rabbis of the Talmud determined that an Israelite was not liable for murder unless he intentionally killed a fellow Israelite. Indeed, if an Israelite intended to kill a non-Israelite, but killed an Israelite by mistake, he was not guilty of murder. The law (Mishna) is explicit in this regard (Sanhedrin 79a):

If he intended killing an animal but slew a man, or a heathen and he killed an Israelite … he is not liable.

seetha,

How can God be so vengefull?

Ask yourself this question - is there anything wrong with anything?
If yes, who are you to say God or Moses were vengeful?
If not, then what seems to be the problem?



Johnny, John Hartung's perspective is not too bad (though I just read intro paragraphs).

At least, I would agree that rules are usually for the in group. Be nice. But just to the people you like.

Unfortunately for us Christians, Jesus asked us to be "GOLDEN" to everybody and that's a tough thing to do.

Keep in mind the so-called "Golden Rule" is a way of expressing the most important commandment, to love God. It is not the only way to express that most important commandment.

Seehta, how do you come to the conclusion that Moses wasn't following the Golden Rule? Or YHWH for that matter? What about the use of force entails that it must not be used in those circumstances? Also, what's wrong with God being vengeful? Why shouldn't He be?

Baloney. You religious types claim you invented everything. The idea existed long before leviticus. Religious fanatics, especially jesus lovers, like to believe that you can't be moral without religion. Again, baloney. Morality existed with the first human groups living in the forests of East Africa, 4 to 6 million years ago. As for following the golden rule, right now so-called believers in that rule are fighting each other to death in many part of the world. Also, of course, it appears that god does not follow it either, or, with his power to end suffering, so many innocent people would not be suffering as we speak. Religion is the bane on mankind. Period. Let religion learn to live by the golden rule.

Baloney. You religious types claim you invented everything. The idea existed long before leviticus.

What evidence do you have?

Dan: What evidence do you have?

Does this count as "prior art"? :-)

As a Theologian, it has always troubled me deeply when suppositions are represented as historical facts, and in this case, the supposition is based on an obvious misunderstanding of Biblical history.
The book of Leviticus is not part of the original "Moses" writings of the Old Testament. It was added by the Sadducees during the Babylonian Exile sometime after 587 BC , as was the beginning of Genesis up to Abraham, and the entire book of Numbers. These are known by biblical scholars as the 'Priestly writings' for this reason.
A wonderfully accessible resource for this information is John J. Collins Introduction to the Hebrew Bible , and I encourage anyone who wishes to know more about the Old Testament to read it.
As for the whether the biblical reference of the Golden Rule is older than the Hindu? Well I must point out there is very clear historical evidence pointing in the direction of earliest parts of The epic, Mahabharata, which dates to the late Vedic period, or around 800 BCE. This is not to be confused with the completed sanskrit transcripts which date between 300 BCE and 400 CE, which is clearly what has happened in an earlier argument on this site.
The truth of the matter is that as of this time, we have no real proofs of where the 'rule' originated, as both Hebrew and Hindu stories come from thousands of years of oral traditions prior to being available in written form. We should also keep in mind that there are other oral traditions which may be even older than these. This fact aside, the idea that some moral guidelines are shared and borrowed amongst different cultures does not discount them as messages from God. On the contrary, I would argue they prove that the singular Will of God speaks to all peoples at all times, and thus we know what is expected of us as Gods children.
In the end, what is important is that a free debate on the issues presented should be encouraged and enjoyed. I would however caution against presenting supposition as fact without at least some investigation into biblical scholarship.

Peace be with you all
Rev. Dr. R. Mellerup

...the idea that some moral guidelines are shared and borrowed amongst different cultures does not discount them as messages from God. On the contrary, I would argue they prove that the singular Will of God

The SINGULAR Will of God(s)??? Christians can't make up their mind about the the SINGULAR Will of their own God, so how is trying to claim first dibs on the Golden Rule PROOF of it?

Biblical proofs and Scientific proofs are very different animals...

Rev. Mellerup - thanks for the comment.

Johnny - I don't think we have biblical proofs.

We have biblical stories. They are either false, true or didactic.

Scientific proofs confirm the bible story.

Scientific theories may disagree with a bible story or narrative but --- they are "theories" not scientific proofs.

E.I.: I don't think we have biblical proofs.

We have biblical stories. They are either false, true or didactic.

Or some combination of the above, but I'm with you so far...

E.I.: Scientific proofs confirm the bible story.

Which scientific "proofs" are you referring to?

E.I.: Scientific theories may disagree with a bible story or narrative but --- they are "theories" not scientific proofs.

"Theory" is used within scientific fields as something which explains the available evidence and has stood up to many tests. Prior to this it is an hypothesis. "Theory" is as close to "Proof" as you get in science, where all conclusions are provisional.
As an example, the theory of evolution is one of the best attested scientific theories. This theory, which currently is basically as close to a scientific proof as can be found, contradicts the biblical record of special creation. Therefore scientific "proofs" contradict the bible story.
There are examples of this in other fields of study such as cosmology, geology, archaeology etc.

The problem with the world's religions is that it puts to much emphasis on the teacher rather than on his teachings.

We debate, argue, fight, because we could not agree on how to worship, praise and obey GOD. We forgot that the best way to serve GOD is to Love what he created. Thus, the Golden Rule.

The problem with the world's religions is that it puts to much emphasis on the teacher rather than on his teachings.

I respectfully disagree. The problem with every religion except Christianity is that they don't focus on the Creator, but on the creation. The first commandment is to love God. Everything else is an extension of that command, including the Golden Rule.

I'm doing a quick study on this topic and doing a presentation video. I believe this rule or better said a commandment. Is one part of the two greatest commandments. Just like Jesus spoken of in Matthew 22:37-40. In fact Jesus basically repeated Leviticus 19:18 and Deuteronomy 6:4-5.

But the truth of the matter is, Who was Jesus speaking too? What type of society was this law establish in Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

Most of these false religions sometimes take things from God's word and twist it out of context to please their own selfishness and sin. Now many non-believers mention the Golden rule to us and we are like your right, we should allow gay marriage, or abortion. Because we wouldn't want them to discriminate us against are beliefs. When in fact this law is only meant for a Godly society who keeps all the commandments who punishes the wicked. Jesus was speaking to believers not non-believers. The Golden Rule only applies to the Godly that follows "ALL OF GOD"S LAWS."

Jay - good points. I've often wondered about this same issue: does being nice applies to Christians only or the non-ones.

I wonder what others would say to this. Let's see if we get another comment on this in the weeks to come.

p.s. looking forward to the ambassadorofheaven.org site... come back and let us know it's live.

This site is in the making, I hope that God will allow this site and ministry that I would like to build will grow. Of course it is God that builds not I. Ambassador of heaven web site quote

How much is god charging. My website could use a little work. Let me know when he's done.

"This is the sum of duty. Do not unto others that which would cause you pain if done to you."
-- Mahabharata 5:1517, from the Vedic tradition of India,
circa 3000 BC

Mike -

thanks for the quote. I would agree that if - any man came up with this - it's probably someone from India/Mesopotamia Region since those cultures have the 'fame' of being the oldest civilizations... Apart from nomads in Africa.

"The problem with the world's religions is that it puts to much emphasis on the teacher rather than on his teachings."

I also disagree with this statement, that is why the First commandment was being put on top. Love God above all things. Focus should be put on its creator, and second only in the creation.